tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post6317420088902339811..comments2023-08-12T03:31:24.561-07:00Comments on postpostochlophobist: Berry my head at wounded prose. Me on Berry on JPII - elements of stylin, obscenely long tangents, some contra Rod strands of thought because in all things I seek to be his dialectical opposite, and other useless ephemera.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-83808490646285745572011-06-07T03:56:53.449-07:002011-06-07T03:56:53.449-07:00Anita, I agree...I would love to talk shop and ran...Anita, I agree...I would love to talk shop and rant about education, LOLO. Will email soon. :) Thanks!<br /><br />DiAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-61184752446255863242011-06-06T05:40:53.518-07:002011-06-06T05:40:53.518-07:00Diane,
Thanks, I'll check out Crazy U. The st...Diane,<br /><br />Thanks, I'll check out Crazy U. The student loan debt is five times what it was only ten years ago so you're right about the bubble. Those pricey degrees are more about branding than education.<br /><br />Feel free to email me via my profile or find me on Facebook. It'd be fun to talk shop, rant about education, etc. with you in more detail.Anitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12385998114723349342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-73782294237227352842011-06-05T07:00:25.173-07:002011-06-05T07:00:25.173-07:00BTW, Anita, if I were truly cynical, I'd say a...BTW, Anita, if I were truly cynical, I'd say all the schools suck, <i>especially</i> Harvard. because at Harvard you're paying $200K-plus for the suckiness. Plus freezing your butt off in Cambridge, Mass.<br /><br />Diane<br /><br />P.S. There is so much more I could tell you about my boss and workplace, but I don't want to get fired...yet!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-37246309510331062832011-06-04T23:14:48.664-07:002011-06-04T23:14:48.664-07:00Anita, I know exactly the company you mean. Their ...Anita, I know exactly the company you mean. Their copy is hilarious!! I love the testimonial by the guy who was gored by the wild boar, but his jeans protected him from serious harm. I wish we were allowed to have one-umpteenth that much creativity at my workplace. Sometimes I feel as if my entire job consists of proofing catalog SKUs. It doesn't, not quite, but it sure feels that way.<br /><br />InDesign's easy. If I can learn it, anyone can, honest. Not that I know it the way the designers do, but I don't have to, so that's OK. <br /><br />Re the whole college thing: Could not agree mroe. Have you read Andrew ferguson's <i>Crazy U</i>? It's a hoot. Must reading for parents of college-bound kids. Very funny (yet thoughtful) look at the insanity of the college-app process. I love the part where Ferguson's discussing the whole extracurriculars craze. He talks about kids feeling they need to put in hundreds of hours pretending to give a cr@p about the little old ladies in the nursing home, just to impress college admissions committees. He concludes that the college-app process is turning our kids into Eddie Haskell. LOL!<br /><br />He's also very good about the out-of-whack costs -- it really is a bubble, I think, just like the housing bubble -- and about the schools' newfound focus on mega-marketing. Man, did we ever see the latter at the Bama Bound presentations. Madison Avenue Meets Academia -- a very strange meeting indeed. Sometimes I felt as if I was at an all-marketing meeting back at work, getting ready to play BS Bingo.<br /><br />DianeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-86104241623548948112011-06-04T20:47:24.313-07:002011-06-04T20:47:24.313-07:00WHOOPSWHOOPSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-2137746345036015772011-06-04T15:26:10.889-07:002011-06-04T15:26:10.889-07:00Diane,
DH and I are pretty cynical about contemp...Diane, <br /><br /><i>DH and I are pretty cynical about contemporary higher education: It all sucks, including Harvard.</i><br /><br />My oldest goes off to a state university in the fall and I've become very cynical about higher ed this past year as well. We should be encouraging kids NOT to do the things it takes to get into schools like Harvard, so that they don't turn into automatons.<br /><br />Plus when I consider how tuition has increased far more dramatically than wages, how the average student loan debt is $24K, how the unemployment rate early 20somethings is twice that of the regular population, etc. I get all the more cynical.<br /><br /><i>For the past 11.5 years, I have direct-reported to the Micromanaging Control Freak Boss from Hell</i><br /><br />Thanks for another reminder that Dilbert hell isn't the way to go. I almost applied for a copywriter job a month or so ago at a local catalog company that sells clothing to plumbers and other working class people. They make jeans called "Ballroom Jeans" that are designed to have more room in the crotch, so how could I not be tempted to apply to work at a company with that kind of sense of humor? But then I noted they require proficiency in InDesign, which I decidedly lack, so I didn't apply.Anitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12385998114723349342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-53421802528755583572011-06-04T10:41:31.464-07:002011-06-04T10:41:31.464-07:00oops, anon above was moi, Diane. :)oops, anon above was moi, Diane. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-31388190435502102452011-06-04T10:40:32.392-07:002011-06-04T10:40:32.392-07:00Anothony: Your relative's cult sounds beyond b...Anothony: Your relative's cult sounds beyond bizarre. Whew. Alleluia was bad but not THAT bad.<br /><br />I've heard of the International Church of Christ, although I've never had any personal contact with it. If you google "cults" and "spiritual abuse," the ICC shows up a <i>lot.</i><br /><br />For the past 11.5 years, I have direct-reported to the Micromanaging Control Freak Boss from Hell, so I've become very sensitive and attuned to the tell-tale signs of control freakery. When my next-door neighbor (Pentecostal) set up a pulpit in her living room and started standing behind it to expound her interpretation of the Bible as Gospel Truth to us ladies in her weekly Bible Study, I knew it was time to decamp. That was shortly before she told me that I had a demon and that the Holy Spirit had told her that my husband and I were having difficulties related to our "love life." Ummm, OK, whatever. Even my BFF at work, who loves TD Jakes, thought that was REALLY weird.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-3208276870873106382011-06-04T10:30:50.263-07:002011-06-04T10:30:50.263-07:00LOL, Owen. One and only reason #1 son has ended up...LOL, Owen. One and only reason #1 son has ended up at Bama: They gave him a big fat scholarship. UNC-Chapel Hill, UNC-Asheville, and Appalachian State gave him a big fat NOTHING (except unsubsidized Stafford Loans). And all three are raising their tuitions next year. The heck with that. Staying in-state ain't the be-all and end-all.<br /><br />DH and I are pretty cynical about contemporary higher education: It all sucks, including Harvard. But the kids need that piece of paper to get a job. So, our philosophy is: Go where they give you the most merit $$$. And that turned out to be Bama. It won't be 100% free, but pretty close. In this economy, that's hard to beat.<br /><br />#1 son knows nothing about football and cares even less, but I'm thinking he'll inevitably get sucked into the Roll Tide Thing. Student-discounted tickets for fall 2011 went on sale online the other night, but we missed it (weren't interested / too busy and exhausted). Maybe he can tag along to a home game or two with his roommates.<br /><br />Despite his obliviousness to football, frats, and the infamous Alabama "Machine," #1 son really enjoyed orientation, and he's psyched for fall.<br /><br />We're gonna miss him. Waaaah.<br /><br />Sorry for going so far off-topic. :)<br /><br />DianeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-1366255752921672282011-06-01T10:28:37.511-07:002011-06-01T10:28:37.511-07:00I misspoke: in the 2nd-to-last-para, "My rela...I misspoke: in the 2nd-to-last-para, "My relative's cult,..." etc.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14138565078105758659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-67863338047416858072011-06-01T10:27:28.199-07:002011-06-01T10:27:28.199-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14138565078105758659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-32191455714535409852011-06-01T08:03:01.829-07:002011-06-01T08:03:01.829-07:00Owen:
On the one hand, not being one who has ever...Owen:<br /><br /><i>On the one hand, not being one who has ever faired well in small community life, especially when it has a leadership that expects obedience and my awe, it is hard for me to understand how people get sucked into this craziness.</i><br /><br />As a fiercely independent and skeptical person, I too have trouble understanding the mindset of cult members. I hesitated these past couple days whether to make the following suggestion, since it does not appear to be a universal feature of cults, but maybe someone will find it interesting:<br /><br />Many cults have rituals that foster euphoric or ecstatic experiences. These rituals are so designed that this euphoria can be generated with some consistency. For a short time after the ritual the cult member feels wonderful, feels that his or her life has been dramatically changed for the better. Once the “high” wears off, however, the cult member must go back for the next “fix.” Since cult members believe this euphoria is a reflection of an objective, permanent change in their life, they believe that their cult has gotten things right, and that any deficiencies in the organization are ephemera, lies, or even the way things ought to be.<br /><br />I know that probably all sounds rather vague. In Christianity I think one sees this best among Pentacostals and perhaps charismatic groups in general. That doesn’t mean that all Pentacostals are cultists, but there is definitely a lot of give-and-take there.<br /><br />A good friend of mine was a member of a Christian cult while in college (before I met him) – I’m pretty sure it was the International Church of Christ. They controlled every aspect of his life; they even chose his future bride for him. I never asked him too much about what life was like in the cult, but at one point he had a picture on Facebook of his “baptism” in a big metal tub, with long Jeebuz hair, surrounded by his fellow believers.<br /><br />Eventually his family staged an intervention and got him to wise up. Immediately after he left the cult his life fell apart. He became quite depressed for a couple years, dropping out of college and basically wandering around doing nothing. Some time later he got things together again, but he tells me that he was happiest as a cult member when there was an answer to everything. He still seems to struggle with depression a lot, and I believe him when he says that it is at least partially because he no longer has that anchor the cult gave him.<br /><br />At one point he was reading a lot of Ayn Rand and Objectivism (he’s an engineer – that explains it, right?), but I think he has gotten over that now too.<br /><br />My inlaw’s cult once tried to recruit me when I was a teenager, breaking into the house and using high-pressure sales tactics to persuade me to drop out of high school and join their elite force for changing the world. Lucky for me, even then I was a stubborn sumbitch. Such naked aggression is usually carefully hidden, of course, so you and Diane only experience boredom, or at worst a vague feeling of creepiness.<br /><br />Anyway, rambling now.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14138565078105758659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-11917687506643747672011-05-30T12:12:28.192-07:002011-05-30T12:12:28.192-07:00Mercyorbe,
The Berry mentioned in this post is Ja...Mercyorbe,<br /><br />The Berry mentioned in this post is Jason Berry who writes for The Nation, not Wendell Berry. But thanks for the advice.Ochlophobist https://www.blogger.com/profile/13751003558600087713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-71303184005287612232011-05-30T11:35:40.688-07:002011-05-30T11:35:40.688-07:00Dude, you need to link up Wendell Berry's Guen...Dude, you need to link up Wendell Berry's Guenonian Traditionalism every time you mention him. EVERY TIME. HAMMER IT HOME, COMMIE, THAT IS WHAT COMMIES ARE GOOD FOR.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-47303320245599852522011-05-30T04:41:27.397-07:002011-05-30T04:41:27.397-07:00A friend of mine was invited to an Opus Dei meetin...A friend of mine was invited to an Opus Dei meeting once and dragged me along. My experience was akin to what Diane describes of the LoC above - it was very boring, but with this air like everyone there especially the speakers thought it utterly profound. No thanks.<br /><br />Diane, I hope your kid realizes what a fine thing you are doing for them by providing an alma mater with a good football program.Ochlophobist https://www.blogger.com/profile/13751003558600087713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-70548300052206501232011-05-30T04:37:13.379-07:002011-05-30T04:37:13.379-07:00I have followed this conversation with interest. ...I have followed this conversation with interest. During my trek in Orthodoxy I spent time in two parishes that came into Orthodoxy by way of a cult - one from the HOOMies/CSBs and one from the EOC. In both cases the Orthodox jurisdiction in question took them in without in any way addressing the cult background, and in both cases the cult ethos maintained itself, though began to subside with time. Though even in the subsiding you see the usual crises associated with people coming out of cults. A considerable number of the kids dropped out of Orthodoxy and religion altogether, and a considerable number of folks did not handle their new found moral freedoms so well (by that I mean finding themselves in a situation where some spiritual leader was not micromanaging their lives). But I have written about all this so much before, and I am done with Orthodoxy, the American manifestations of which I view as having a cult-like spirit(s) pervasive in most of the jurisdictions, so best not to dwell on it. It is a conversation which is never effective anyway - the people who see the cult "writing on the wall" see it already, and those who are drinking the cult kool-aide just become more convinced you are a kook and dyspeptic grump if you try to explain to them how it is that their appropriation of their religion follows a cult-like psychology and cult-like patterns of behavior. <br /><br />I did sort of hang out with an Evangelical church when I was chasing my now wife that had an interesting background. It was part of a church association started by the guy who broke off from the EOC when he saw they were going Orthodox. You can read in Gilquist's Becoming Orthodox that the founder, who had been EOC leadership, was made to sign an agreement not to speak or have any contact with the EOC for two years after breaking away, because he was violating the pact they had all made to stay together. I first read about this from Gilquists book when a 19 year old student in Bible college, and then when I met Ray (the breakaway guy) he filled in more of the details. And I'm still so much of a dipshit I ended up a member of a former EOC Antiochian parish. My wife once mentioned Ray's name to a priest's wife there and the priest's wife turned white with horror at the mere mention of Ray's name. Wackyville, I know. Anyway, this Evangelical church had been part of a charismatic ecumenical group of Evangelicals and Catholics that broke up before it joined Ray's group, and they had some stories of their own weirdnesses similar to what Diane mentions here.<br /><br />On the one hand, not being one who has ever faired well in small community life, especially when it has a leadership that expects obedience and my awe, it is hard for me to understand how people get sucked into this craziness. On the other hand, I myself have wasted a lot of my adult like trying to find some magical religious fix that took all the problems of modernity and made them go away for me. I have some understanding of that desire to find a religious expression which with purity and precision transcends modernity and its particular pathologies. I hope I'm all over that now.Ochlophobist https://www.blogger.com/profile/13751003558600087713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-28659981062340648462011-05-29T21:52:08.301-07:002011-05-29T21:52:08.301-07:00LOL, yes, we are just carrying on a dialogue here,...LOL, yes, we are just carrying on a dialogue here, which probably interests no one but ourselves. :) As you say, so much more can be said; it's an endless topic. But we'd better not bore the others to tears.<br /><br />I don't know anyone in Opus Dei, either. I confess I am chary of all of these newer movements. The Benedictines and Franciscans and other venerable religious orders have been around forever; they've stood the test of time. Which is not to say that they attract no kooks or completely lack cultish aspects; but I think much of the nonsense has been knocked out of them over the centuries. Not so with the newer movements. Maybe they will stand the test of time; maybe not. In the meantime, I'm not betting my soul on any of them, thank you very much.<br /><br />I one met a gentleman from a group called Tradition, Faith, and Family. He was immaculately dapper in an old-worldish way and as eccentric as all get-out. From some literature he gave me I gathered that Tradition, Faith, and Family has a preferential option for the rich. Owen would love 'em. :)<br /><br />Diane<br /><br />P.S. Off to Alabama for a week tomorrow so will not be able to respond to any further comments (if any) till next weekend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-89474080964952738112011-05-29T17:17:58.774-07:002011-05-29T17:17:58.774-07:00Diane, good stuff. For people like you and me, who...Diane, good stuff. For people like you and me, who have had friends or relatives who are or were members of cults, this topic is more interesting because we have seen smart, capable people taken in by them. There is more that could be said, but I don't think anyone will be reading this if this comment gets any longer.<br /><br />In any case, I have little patience for people who claim that Catholicism is itself a cult. Cults, as I said before, are parasites: they feed off the goodness of people and society. The most successful ones keep their host alive as long as possible, but they are still parasites. They don't build up cultures and people. The Catholic Church has clearly done that (despite all the evil done in its name). Yes, a lot of people are psychologically scarred by their experiences in the RCC -- but the same goes for public schools or the boy scouts.<br /><br />By the way, I was also thinking of Opus Dei when I brought up papal-approved cults. I know all zero members of OD who read this blog will get on my case about this, but from what I have read, that organization, if not itself a cult, at least fosters an atmosphere where isolated cult-like behavior can occur.<br /><br />The problem is that people think cults are an all-or-nothing affair, but most members of most cults will live ordinary lives and be blissfully unaware of the less savory aspects of their organization. Perhaps this is the case with Opus Dei. On the other hand, Alleluia, from your description at least, is clearly on the more destructive end of the spectrum.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14138565078105758659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-48239440953299369042011-05-29T16:39:13.350-07:002011-05-29T16:39:13.350-07:00Oh, forgot to mention: The Alelluia "elders&q...Oh, forgot to mention: The Alelluia "elders" were self-appointed. For life. Of course.<br /><br />Can't get much more "crunchy' than that. ;)<br /><br />DianeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-41393149980772617992011-05-29T16:37:19.398-07:002011-05-29T16:37:19.398-07:00Getting back to my goddaughter's community... ...Getting back to my goddaughter's community... (sorry for skipping around, but one thing reminds me of another)...I mentnioned their manipulative use of "deliverance" sessions. It operated like this. Say there was something the leaders were doing that bothered you. Maybe they were taking all these European jaunts with community funds (from tithes). Or maybe they were demanding too much of a time commitment from your spouse, and it was affecting your family life. Well, if you brought this up, however deferentially, you were told that you had a "spirit of rebellion," and you were subjected to a "deliverance" session to drive the "spirit" out. I cannot believe any sane person would put up with this, but I guess, after so many years, you were brainwashed...afraid to trust your own instincts.<br /><br />Once, when Syl and her husband were consulting the local parish priest about the weird stuff going on at Alleluia, they described the elaborate system of control there: Each person had a "head," and he had a "head," and he had a "head," on up to the ruling "elders" who led the whole shebang. (Yes, just as un-Catholic as it sounds!) They shared some of the things their "heads" had told them to do and to not do. Shocked, the priest exclaimed, "Even the bishop would never tell you stuff like that!" Something tells me that was an understatement.<br /><br />That's why I'm happy to just stick with my parish. I have no desire to get involved with this or that Special Group. My parish may be the Great Unwashed (of whom I am chief), but at least we are more or less normal and ordinary. Not stark raving mad, at any rate.<br /><br />Even the most dysfunctional parish is healthy compared with the cults!<br /><br />DianeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-69442730264497162282011-05-29T16:36:07.358-07:002011-05-29T16:36:07.358-07:00Great points, Anthony. Because of my goddaughter&#...Great points, Anthony. Because of my goddaughter's experiences, I find this whole topic fascinating.<br /><br />I will say that the "charismatic covenant communities" were allowed to flourish, unchecked, for so long largely because they operated outside of official church structures. They were (in a sense) <i>rivals</i> to the local parishes, not official parts of them. The local ordinaries were happy to have on-fire Catholics in their midst, so they didn't think to investigate. Then, too, the communities were technically ecumenical, so there was only so much the bishop felt he could do; he had no jurisdiction over the Protestant members. <br /><br />However, as soon as any given community petitioned the bishop for some sort of official status within the diocese, the sh*t invariably hit the fan. That's when everything would come out. Several of these communities were shut down as a result. I believe that both People of Praise (South Bend, Indiana) and People of Hope (Rutherford, NJ) were shut down. Several others were reorganized: Word of God (Ann Arbor) and Mother of God (Gaithersburg), among them.<br /><br />As the popularity of the charismatic renewal wanes (and it has been waning for years now), these groups have less and less influence, thankfully.<br /><br />The Legionaries are another kettle of fish altogether. They did indeed, as you say, enjoy official status and papal approval. And they were extremely cult-like. The website life_after_rc brims with personal anecdotes about the cultish control exercised by the Legion. It's all so familiar -- lay members of Regtnum Christi being told that the Legion came first, their families second; people being manipulated during spiritual direction; people being required to attend endless meetings; people being taken advantage of and required to do free or poorly paid manual labor; etc. etc. etc.<br /><br />I used to know a young medical student who was very devout and rather trad (although not ultra-trad). He was convinced he had a religious vocation (although the fact that he was saddled with med-school debt seemed to rather put a crimp in his vocational prospects). Anyway, one day I semi-jokingly suggested the Legionaries. This was back during the '90s. My friend said their recruiting methods creeped him out. He also said he was "too old." He was just 24 or 25. I said, "Too old?" He said, "They like to get you when you're really young, so they can mold you to their way of thinking." So here, again, way back then, there were people who were wise to the Legionaries! (He didn't know about all the sex-abuse stuff, though.)<br /><br />DianeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-14733476478438743892011-05-29T10:05:52.487-07:002011-05-29T10:05:52.487-07:00As someone with a close family member who has been...As someone with a close family member who has been involved with a cult for too many years, I was surprised to discover that there are cults within the Catholic Church (not to mention the OC as well). I think this is something that Catholics should take seriously: Catholic cults do exist, often with the papal stamp of approval.<br /><br />Sophisticated modern cults are about more than charismatic leaders. To fail to recognize this is to underestimate them. They are about control, power, and marketing more generally. I learned this from my relative's cult, which makes talk about control quite explicit. All of this cult's techniques, even the "spiritual" ones, are actually aimed at learning how to control others and, conversely (and perversely), how to make yourself malleable to cult leaders. It is from this cult that I learned that all forms of marketing and advertising are evil.<br /><br />Cults are also about parasitic consumption of their members. My relative's cult is about consuming your money and your time. Diane's comment about the requirement of "infinite time commitment" is quite insightful. When the priest at my former church (continuing Anglican) began pulling this b.s. on me, I started looking elsewhere. If nothing else, I know cultish activity when I see it. (For the record, I've since left religion altogether.)<br /><br />Cults are parasites through and through. They pretend that you exist for the cult rather than the other way around. Catholic cults are, perhaps, parasitic on positive aspects of the Catholic faith, such as injunctions to love thy neighbor, and neutral aspects, such as respect for authority.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm commenting because lately I have been thinking about the growth of cult-like behavior in the RCC and OC in general. What is disturbing (and Owen used to talk about this on his old blog in the context of "consumerism") is how larger segments of the RCC and OC have begun to take on cultish techniques from evangelical Christianity. Once you begin hearing talk about "relevance," about "reaching out" -- once the question becomes of how to increase our share in the religious marketplace -- then, it seems to me, you have entered cult territory. You don't have all the trappings of a cult there, not yet, but market forces will force you to distort your religion.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14138565078105758659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-83156783026293830932011-05-29T06:54:14.038-07:002011-05-29T06:54:14.038-07:00LOL, thanks. Much more interesting is my goddaught...LOL, thanks. Much more interesting is my goddaughter's tale of 23 years in the Allelulia Community in Augusta, Georgia. The Allelulia Community is a "charismatic covenant community," ecumenical but about 60% Catholic. It got VERY weird and cult-like and controlling, and it did a lot of damage to my goddaughter and her family. This was apparently a common pattern among Catholic charismatic covenant communities. Perhaps the most infamous case was the Mother of God Community in Gaithersburg, Maryland. Some years ago the washington Post did an excellent series of eye-opening stories about the MOG Community. You can still find this series on the Internet. Let;s just say that virtually everything you'll read about MOG also applies to the Allelulia Community, but on a smaller scale. Allelulia did not have the multimillion-dollar publishing empire, but it had the extreme control freakery, the hierarchical system of self-appointed "heads" and "elders," the spy network, the evil, manipulative use of "deliverance" sessions, the insistence on unreasonable time commitments from members, the shunning and badmouthing of ex-members, and on and on. Oh, not to mention the misuse of community funds by the leadership. And did I mention the mandatory tithing and double-tithing?<br /><br />BTW--from what I understand, Alelluia Community was one of the "crunchy" alternatives Rod Dreher celebrated in his book <i>Crunchy Cons.</i> Have never read said tome, but I do recall hearing that he featured -- and fawned over -- Allelulia. Trust Dreher to pick a manipulative, destructive, controlling cult to extol.<br /><br />Maybe Alelluia has changed in recent years. Have not kept up with it since Syl, my goddaughter, left. I know a lot of bishops cracked down on these communities. Some bishops even shut the communities down. (The communities usually did not get into trouble with the bishops until they applied for some sort of official canonical recognition. Before that, since they were ecumenical and para-church, they weren't under anyone's oversight. As soon as they wanted to become official, the dioceses had to step in, and it's then that all the unsavory details came out. Not saying all the "charismatic covenant communities" were like this, but I think most were...they'd been influenced by a Protestant communitarian movement called Sword of the Spirit, and they got all their cult-like-ness from this source, apparently.)<br /><br />Sorry to go into all that, but I think it's way more interesting than my Legionary experience, actually. While Syl was in the process of leaving Allelulia, she shared a lot of info with me about these communities, and it was quite fascinating, in a sick kinda way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-35929984599374342172011-05-29T01:27:47.457-07:002011-05-29T01:27:47.457-07:00Well thanks for sharing Diane, interesting even if...Well thanks for sharing Diane, interesting even if anti-climacticParkerhttp://www.google.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6519837413200053629.post-85882705301287001652011-05-28T23:21:27.193-07:002011-05-28T23:21:27.193-07:00OK, here goes. I was working at a now-defunct dire...OK, here goes. I was working at a now-defunct direct-response ad agency in Charlotte. (Weirdly enough, while I was there, the building where the agency was located was bought by the Diocese of Charlotte and became the diocesan headquarters. We [Cadmus Direct] were on the first floor. The diocese was on the second and third floors. I used to go upstairs at lunch-time for daily Mass with the then-bishop, apple-cheeked elderly Bishop Curlin. Whenever work got crazy, I would sneak upstairs and spend a few minutes in front of the Tabernacle. It was muy cool.)<br /><br />But actually, that's all irrelevant to my tale. Before the diocese bought my workplace, I used to go to lunch-time daily Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral. That's where I met the Regnum Christi gals. At least I <i>think</i> that's where I met them. I might have met them at Saint Gabriel's, but I don't think so. (It's been about 14 years now; memory getting rusty.)<br /><br />They were very nice and devout and all that, and they invited me to an Evening of Reflection or some such thing led by Legionary priests. They told me that Bishop Curlin would not allow the Legionary to set up shop in the Charlotte Diocese. (I later found this very telling. It shows that, even back in 1997, some bishops had well-founded suspicions WRT the Legionaries. I know that a lot of people back then were iffy about their recruiting methods. Maybe that was Bishop Curlin's only concern...but who knows.) Anyway, even though they weren't allowed to establish a Legionary "base" in the Charlotte diocese, they <i>were</i> allowed to give spiritual direction to Regnum Christi gals in Charlotte. So, that was what this evening was to be all about. Two LC priests from South Carolina (I think) were giving this spiritual evening of something or other. So, I accepted the invitation. <br /><br />At the time my kids were little, and I didn't go out much at night. But I was curious, and I guess I thought I might get a spiritual boost in the arm, which I certainly needed.<br /><br />Before the meeting, I ate dinner in the apartment of one of the Regnum ladies. There were several other women there, including one Genevieve Kinecke, who was something of a minor celebrity in Devout Catholic Women circles: She edited a magazine about True Femininity; I believe she also wrote a book on the subject. All the women there were very intelligent and cultured, and I was favorably impressed. They were also very friendly, which I now realize was "love-bombing" to a certain extent. (They were nice ladies, and I do not mean to question their sincerity; but, at that time, Regnum Christi women were being pressured heavily to recuit, so....)<br /><br />Anyway, we went on to the meeting, which was held in one of the classrooms at a local parochial school.<br /><br />I don't know what I was expecting, but let's just say I was underwhelmed. We sat at the desks in the classroom, and the two Legionary priests stood up at the front and lectured at us. It was dry beyond belief. Hey, I'd been involved in the charismatic renewal and the Marian movement, and I wasn't used to "dry." :) The two priests were clean-shaven to the bone, fairly youngish, and about as appealing as accountants. I can't say that my spiritual antennae picked up anything "off," but one thing did strike me: They kept saying, "Nuestro Padre says this," and "Nuestro Padre says that." If I'd been more discerning, I would have found this rather creepy. As it was, it did seem a little weird.<br /><br />I can't remember what they talked about. I was pretty bored, truth to tell.<br /><br />My Regnum friends later invited me to other things, but I really wasn't interested, and my family would not have taken kindly to my heavy involvement in after-work meetings. (Like all cults, the Legion demands an infinite time commitment, and a working mom with small kids does not enjoy the luxury of infinite time!)<br /><br />I told you it was anti-climactic. :)<br /><br />DianeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com